^^Great points @Brian.
Some questions:
1. How do you know if a Realtor really has "front line access"? Seems to me that everyone and their brother claim to have VVVIP status. I know of a handful that actually has this.
2. Do their provide you with service after you sign? Great question. It is my understanding that the real VVVVIP agents service mostly investors, and do not provide much after-sales service. Any recommendations?
3. As with above, I think it is important to know if they specialize in investors or end-users. From my experience, there are very different skill sets that come with both.
4. How local are they, and how much do they know about the future of the area. Will the lot next door be a highrise and block views, or is it staying low? Is there a Starbucks opening next door, or a Tim Hortons?...etc..

Thanks slutsky. How do you determine front line access is legit?

^^Great question.
The issue that that to really know who the "players" are, you have to be immersed in the industry. There is no chance that the "average Joe" has any clue who has the access, nor do most of the end-users even know about VVVIP events, and such.
I have never tried this, but I am sure you can call the Broker of Record, and ask who has special access.
Some other Key points:
1. Find an influencer on Twitter, and ask them! For example, if you are looking at getting access to a condo, message @BuzzBuzzHome and we will always help find someone.
2. Find the key influences on Twittrer, and check out what "Lists" they have created, and check what their "list" is saying. There is essential information on Twitter, and you have to know how to utilize its power
3. Check out the project's website, Facebook page...etc... See what they are saying! And, don't be shy to talk to them!
4. Look at all the forums. There are amazing real-estate forums all across Canada. Snoop them out, and read everything.
5. Check out picture sharing websites, and search the name of the project you are interested in. See who is posting pictures of the family and friends events...
6. Read all the blogs that are out there. See what agents are talking about. See who is "talking about a project" vs. "promising information in return for your email address".
7. Snoop!!! Goto the sales centre, even if it is still under construction, and ask questions about events and who has access.

Brian,
All of the above mentioned are very important. For me a couple of the major points would be:
A) front of line access. Already discussed but this is so so so important. Ability to secure the units for clients has become a VVVIP agents biggest asset. The question exists - how do you know which agents has first in line access? There are only a handful of REAL VVVIP agents out there whereas everyone else is just "regular VIP". There is a world of difference between the two (hint, we are Real VVVIP agents for many developers :) )
B) after signing service is very important. A large percentage of our business continues to be referrals, that tells us we are doing something right. As Matt stated, most of our clients are investors and we do keep them up to date with how the developments are doing.
C) Honesty. Ask your VVIP about some different projects. Are they all amazing? If so, the probably don't know what they are talking about. Even some of the best developments in the city have SOMETHING negative about them. Cn your agent articulate the negatives? Is your agent advising you or just taking an order? Key difference - something to consider.
D) knowing the future of the area. What is going to make this a good development for years to come?
E) do the understand what they are selling? We have ramped up our knowledge of the economics of investing - can your agent articulate and understand the supply vs demand issues? Do they understand where people are buying? Do they understand who is buying?
F) selling. Buying a condo is easy - selling the assignment and actually making the profit is much much trickier. Ensure your agent can market and navigate an assignment sale.
G) knowledge of general market. I know the pre construction market really well because I don't sell any other type of real estate. That let's me focus on and know, understand and rate the major developments in Toronto. Can your agent have a discussion about the various projects? Do they know the special offers at the time? All of this is important.
There is a lot more that comes with being a VVIP agent - I will check back in on this discussion later - about to head into a meeting :)

The BS-meter - how much BS are they throwing at you vs. how much truth are they willing to share?
Litmus test: has your agent EVER said that it is not a good time to buy?

Andrew said:
The BS-meter - how much BS are they throwing at you vs. how much truth are they willing to share?
Litmus test: has your agent EVER said that it is not a good time to buy?

Good point, Andrew! It's not always going to be a good time to buy. Not just 'wait for the right project' but 'wait for the right market'.

All good points.
Re: Investor clients vs end user clients: A good presale realtor knows how to work with both. The end user will want more after sale service and the agent must be capable and willing to do that. Some investors simply won't care for as much service, and the agent can back away a bit.
-The Realtors Website: Take a look at their experience and information they are putting out there. Do they simply have a VIP signup on their normal realtor webpage? or a webpage dedicated to following the pre construction industry which demonstrates knowledge & constant tracking of what's going on, what's coming up etc.? ie. talkcondo, vancouverpresales
I think a good presale agent demonstrates their knowledge first, and therefore earns peoples business. If the agent is simply saying follow me and I'll get you VIP access, but not demonstrating that they actively follow the industry, or track various developments, they're like talking BS.
-How have they earned their relationships? Ask them how they've developed relationships with various developers & marketing companies to the point where they can get you VIP access, or even just know the industry well enough.
Generally I think you'll hear 1 of 2 things:
They've either represented a lot of buyers into various developments and made relationships that way & can give you examples and #'s.
Or they've been on the other side of the transaction many times in selling developments & have made relationships through being on that side of the industry, which they intern use to benefit they're buyer clients.

Amar said:
Re: Investor clients vs end user clients: A good presale realtor knows how to work with both. The end user will want more after sale service and the agent must be capable and willing to do that. Some investors simply won't care for as much service, and the agent can back away a bit.

I don't necessarily agree with this. Investor clients and End Users are looking at completely different things. I am much more comfortable dealing with investors as my skillset and personality matches with what the investors are looking for (economic data, appreciation rates, rental yield etc.) - they are hard facts.
An end-user is looking for more specifics and are driven by emotions - it's a different skill set. I don't think the ability to work both investors and end-users is necessarily the mark of a good pre-construction agent - In fact as a buyer I'd be more comfortable dealing with a pre-construction agent that SPECIALIZES in end-user pre-construction or SPECIALIZES in investor pre-construction.....
Thoughts?

^ I have had end-user clients (some of them read this forum) - and they will be the first to tell you that when I am discussing the pro's and con's of the buildings, I'm seldom talking about the "incredible views" or the "amazing amenities" or the "quick access to the subway" -- but rather I'm saying "condo's with views similar to this in this neighbourhood appreciate x% more" or "developments with subway access less than two minutes walk will sell x days quicker" etc. -- everything I tell them has a "hard facts" slant to it. Some end-users love, but some aren't interested in it -- but it's how I am wired.

Roy: Good thoughts, I agree with you that the conversation goes differently, and the items of importance are certainly different, but I don't personally have any issue dealing with both and I'm confident I give both quality representation.
I guess it's likely how I'm wired too. My previous experience was on the sales side of pre-construction for a long time, so I'm used to adjusting based on what type of buyer I was dealing with. I can confidently switch gears from investor talk to end user talk and understand the different motivations of each.
I think it's also likely a sign of our different markets. From what I've read here, there's seems to be a lot of pre-construction specialized agents in the Toronto area? so I guess extra specialization within that would come. Does that perhaps give you a point of differentiation?
In Vancouver, there are lots of agents who dabble into pre-construction, but not many who would claim to specialize in it. As far as I know, I'm the only agent in Van who even has a specialized website for it, so I guess I feel I'm "niche" enough without only working with investors or end users.

^ Amar, there are a lot that say they specialize in pre-construction, but few do it (almost) exclusively. Pre-construction research and work takes up so much of my time I cannot even imagine doing it while showing homes and doing listing appointments. There simply aren't enough hours in the day to become an expert at everything.
I am of the opinion that Real Estate has too many "Jack of all Trades" (willing to help buy, sell, local, out of town, commercial, residential etc.etc.) and not enough that are willing to say no to business that falls out of their expertise. As a client, I would much rather deal with an agent who "KNOWS" a certain neighbourhood, or Investment Strategies, or Commercial Developments ... or whatever it is. My business has skyrocketed ever since I started saying "NO" to business I was unable to deal with and frequently refer my Toronto resale business to agents who specialize in that. I don't wear lots of different hats - I'd rather the one hat that I do wear works very very well.
Again, I would re-iterate that I don't think that the ability to "switch between" investor talk and end-user talk (for lack of better terminology) would be important in determining a "good pre-construction agent".

Roy, agree with you on the jack or all trades bit. Anyone who tries to be an expert on everything, ends up being an expert on nothing.
I guess where I disagree is whether investors and end users of pre-construction are that far apart. To me, they are different but still fall under the same scope of pre-construction buyers, and my business model covers both, with confidence I can do so well.
I didn't mean to suggest a good pre-construction agent MUST do that; perhaps my wording came off like that. Was trying to respond to the point on after sale service required which differs depending on the buyer.
My business model allows me to work with both investor and end users confidently, but it's certainly not the only way to operate.

I most definately agree with the notion that there are too many jack of all trades agents out there. In my first 6 months of being a licensed realtor I would tell people I could help with all transactions as I felt that as an intelligent individual I could do the requisite research needed for each clients needs.
I know now that 1. This is not possible even if you only work with one client at a time your just not going to be versed enough in the specifics of that transaction to be "worth" your commission even if you spend all day everyday doing research 2. People will only accept "I don't know but will find out" once maybe twice before their opinion of you goes from trusted advisor to jackass stealing my money.
Personally I wouldnt go near a pre-con sales office anymore, I'm focusing on re-sale and when people ask me to represent them in a new condo trasaction I take it as a compliment and refer the business away.
Cheers,
Morgan Gray

I don't agree that investors and end users are necessarily that different. It seems to me that how an end user would value a unit as a place to live in will have a direct effect on the value of the unit as an investment. Some end users will pay more attention to `emotion', but these same emotions do have a real influence on price.
I am starting to have clients who are interested in purchasing pre-construction, as an investment as well as a potential end use future home. Depending on their situation when the unit is available for occupancy, they may choose to rent it out.
Is buying pre-construction particularly risky for those who are new to real estate investments? What are the most important things to look out for? How long is the normal wait before the deal has to be closed, and the suite can be occupied? What is the minimum deposit required?

Some good points from some of the sales reps at DNA3:

Rubeel Khan:
1) Have a good working relationship with the in-house salespeople, Admin Staff and Developer.

2) Not just sell during the preopening phase with all the hype, but bring clients throughout the life of the project. This guarantees a continued relationship between the agent and builder and grants them first access to any new development project by the same builder or associated projects.

3) Is good at reading floor plans and differentiating between layout vs bad. Its not always about sq foot but how efficient is the usage of space.


4) Understand Condo bylaws and stuff like how occupancy fees is calculated, adjustments , Levies, HST, disclosure statements, assignments etc

5) Knows the project inside-out i.e Number of Units, Amenities, Retail, Neighborhood, Rental Return, Resale Values.

6) Have relationship with clients.


Erica Smith:
1. Understanding the additional costs within the agreement. In other words, hidden costs.

2. Having at least 3 real estate lawyers on hand that deal specifically with pre construction agreements

3. Understanding the 10 day cooling period and what it means to the purchaser

4. Understanding the quality of the finished product as per the builder's reputation

Matthew said:
^^Great points @Brian.

Some questions:

1. How do you know if a Realtor really has "front line access"? Seems to me that everyone and their brother claim to have VVVIP status. I know of a handful that actually has this.

I'd suggest you build relationships with agents belonging to the exclusive broker on preconstruction sites. I work for Milborne real estate, which is the exclusive broker for 1 out of 5 new condo launches in the GTA. We really do have front line access to inventory as we are the ones selling the site, know the ins and outs of precontruction sales, and are in the loop with which sites are launching. We also have a pretty good idea of who the top agents in the city are because we work with many top "VVIP"agents on a daily basis. If we don't know an agent personally or their performance level, we can get an idea by corresponding with our agents at other sales sites.

A knowlegeable agent who LEGITLY has good relationships with the exclusive broker team as well as the Developer (who doesn't just tell their clients this is the case when it is untrue) is pretty solid when it comes to the preconstruction game. This can make a world of difference for the client.

^^@Linda, it is great that you know who the VVIP agents are, but you are industry.
How does your 'average Joe' find out this information?

This is great stuff!

Matthew said:
^^@Linda, it is great that you know who the VVIP agents are, but you are industry.

How does your 'average Joe' find out this information?

Build relationships with those representing the exclusive broker! Like I mentioned above, we have a good overview of what is going on with new launches and how you can get access to new projects launches to buy at the preliminary stages. If we can't connect you ourselves, we'll most likely know a top agent who can.

Here is a good way to know if someone is a VIP agent.... ask them if they have the VIP password to a condo-website!
For instance, if you are looking for floorplans and specs for Perspective Condos, you will need the password for... http://www.perspectivecondos.com/broker.php