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NHINCOMPOOP
Buzzer
reply 28 vote 2
 

What is a "Bedroom"?

I believe development charges in Toronto are determined by the number of bedrooms in a condo. What is officially considered a bedroom? I've been floorplans where some 1+den units could be considered 2 bedrooms, and others where the 2nd bedroom, well, really isn't.

Does it just depend on how the unit is marketed, or are there requirements for a bedroom (e.g., a closet, a door, etc.)?
19
Canada / New Home Q&A
 
 
 
MATTHEW SLUTSKY
BuzzStaff
reply 1969 vote 68
 
 
Hi nhincompoop.. love the name!!
There are a lot of requirements for what determines a "bedroom", however I do not have my Ontario Building Code handy at the moment.
If no one else posts the requirements, you might want to check out the Ministry of Municipal Affairs and Housing. Here is the link to the section on the OBC:
http://www.mah.gov.on.ca/Page7393.aspx/Page11.aspx
The dictionary has a pretty lame definition: a room furnished and used for sleeping.
 
 
NHINCOMPOOP
Buzzer
reply 28 vote 2
 
 
Hi, is the code available online? The link you provided seems to now lead to a generic page and doesn't reference a specific section.
 
 
LORENA ROMANO
Buzzer
reply 22 vote 2
 
 
I don't have my copy of the building code either, however, I believe a bedroom needs to be approximately 55 sq.ft, have an operational plug and switch, and an operational window. The window also needs to have a certain dimension for ventilation and fire escape. I can't seem to remember the other requirements but once I get a chance to look at the building code I will post again. As Matt wrote, there are a lot of requirements that determine a 'bedroom' according to Ontario Building Code.
 
 
EDUARDO ORTIZ
NewBee
reply 6
 
 
Agreed....according to the OBC, the definition of a bedroom is not determined solely on ft2 requirements, but in terms of ft2 the requirements vary for Bedrooms, Master Bedrooms, Combination Bedrooms and Sleeping Rooms-(other than in dwelling units).
If we consider a typical IBR condo unit, the bedroom should be at least 75ft2 if it does not have a closet/built-in cabinet and at least 65ft2 if it has a closet/built-in cabinet....in addition other requirements such as room enclosure, min. clear room height, ventilation and unobstructed glass area need to be considered.

architecture unfolded.
 
 
NHINCOMPOOP
Buzzer
reply 28 vote 2
 
 
So what about new layouts with "interior" bedrooms with no windows? Do they count?
 
 
MARTHA LEE
Buzzer
reply 35
 
 
What if, as a consumer, you choose to use a `den' as a bedroom. Is that a problem? Are there any actual risks - health, fire, etc.. for sleeping in a room with no window?
They would make it so much easier if they would just build some actual 3 bedroom condos!
 
 
BRIAN PERSAUD
BabbleBee
reply 274 vote 12
 
 
There are requirements for a room
With your particular question regarding windows
Ontario Building Code (OBC) States
Article 3.7.2.1. Window Area: (1) Except as provided in Sentences (2) and (3) or otherwise permitted, every room used for sleeping in any building, and every principal room such as living room, dining room or combination of them in dwelling units SHALL BE PROVIDED WITH WINDOWS having areas conforming to Part 9
Streetcar, for examples does not have windows in their 1 bedroom suites in 8 Gladstone.
How do Developers get over this? I cover this in my book that will be in book stores in the fall
National Building Code of Canada and the OBC allow for "Alternative Solutions" where a developer can build something where it's performance complies with the code.
Streetcar got around this by putting frosted glass sliding doors in the room that brought in natural light
So because it does meet the minimum performance it can be called a room
 
 
EUGENE MEZINI
Buzzer
reply 156 vote 6
 
 
From what a know, a bedroom needs to have a closet, a door, and a window.
When there is no window, you have to have natural sunlight coming in via a glass sliding door. There is a certain percentage to how much natural sunlight must come in and I beleive its somewhere between 40%-50%.
 
 
EUGENE MEZINI
Buzzer
reply 156 vote 6
 
 
So yes "interior" bedrooms count because they get natural sunlight.
 
 
BRIAN PERSAUD
BabbleBee
reply 274 vote 12
 
 
I believe the The amount of natural light is lower, more like 5%...Can you find me the reference where its between 40%-50% and what is it 40%-50% of?

9.7.1.2. Minimum Window Areas
Bedrooms and other finished rooms 5% of area served (with exceptions noted in the code)
 
 
BRIAN PERSAUD
BabbleBee
reply 274 vote 12
 
 
Also regarding your comment that a room needs a closet. Again, where did you see that? I've seen many bedrooms without closets. This is why wardrobes are created

9.5.7.1. Areas of Bedrooms
(1) Except as provided in Articles 9.5.7.2. and 9.5.7.3., bedrooms in dwelling units shall have an area not less than 7 m² where built-in cabinets are not provided and not less than 6 m² where built-in cabinets are provided.
 
 
BRIAN PERSAUD
BabbleBee
reply 274 vote 12
 
 
Rooms also have rules surrounding natural ventilation and heights
Height rules
2.3 m over at least 50% of the required floor area OR 2.1 m over 100% of the required floor area
• any part of the floor area having a height of less than 1.4 m shall not count when calculating required floor area
 
 
MARC
Buzzer
reply 12 vote 1
 
 
Bedrooms are defined in a number of ways depending on the purpose of the regulation.

For the purposes of the Ontario Building Code (now available on line), there is the above-noted requirement for a window.

For the purposes of this conversation the (other) germane definition is found in the local development charges by-law, which tie the development charges rate to the number of bedrooms for apartment/condo (dwelling) units (more bedrooms = more people = greater need for services). The City of Toronto Development Charges By-law 275-2009 defines a bedroom to be "A room used or designed or intended for use as sleeping quarters but does not include a living room, dining room, kitchen or an area to be used as a den, study or other similar area". Municipalities use the definition as a means of capturing higher development charges on condominium and rental apartment developments, in part by trying to prevent developers, particularly in places like Waterloo where student housing is a big issue, from labelling rooms as anything other than a bedroom to avoid these higher charges.

The (former) City of Toronto Zoning By-law 438-86 on the other hand takes a narrower view of what a bedroom is, defining it as a "habitable room larger than 7 square metres, but does not include a living room, dining room or kitchen". The zoning regulations have more of a social than a revenue-generating purpose.

In terms of the question posed by nhincompoop above, there has to be a window for the room to be called a bedroom (Building Code), but it may be that calling the room a "den" is a clever means of avoiding a higher development charge rate. This begs the question of course on whether one can use a den as a sleeping quarters...

Marc Kemerer
Blaney McMurtry LLP
 
 
MATTHEW SLUTSKY
BuzzStaff
reply 1969 vote 68
 
 
So @Marc, if the "bedroom" in Toronto must have a window, why do I see a lot of floorplans where there is NO window??
Is that only shown as a bedroom in their marketing material, but in their dealing with the city called a "den"?
 
 
BRIAN PERSAUD
BabbleBee
reply 274 vote 12
 
 
Marc, there doesn't have to be a window. I spoke to the folks at the Ontario Building code and they referred me to the section alternative solutions.
 
 
BRIAN PERSAUD
BabbleBee
reply 274 vote 12
 
 
Source of my info on Alternative solutions
Andrew Steen P.Eng C.Eng M.I.Struct.E.
Building Code Advisor
Building and Development Branch
2nd Floor, 777 Bay Street
Toronto, ON. M5G 2E5
Telephone: 416-585-6253
Fax: 416-585-7531
e-mail: andrew.steen@ontario.ca
 
 
BRIAN PERSAUD
BabbleBee
reply 274 vote 12
 
 
I'm going to confirm with the city of Toronto if a developer can call something a bedroom for marketing purposes and have it classified as something else by the city. This brings huge liability issues when selling in the future
 
 
MARC
Buzzer
reply 12 vote 1
 
 
The Code does require a window in a bedroom (5% glass area) but does allow for alternative solutions (equivalency). It is up to the local Chief Building Official to recognize whether a particular design meets the intent, for example through the provision of "secondary light" (i.e where a bedroom opens up to a living room where there are large windows). There should be local policies in place to determine this. Again the more bedrooms the better for the collection of development charges.
Marc
 
 
WARREN GYULAY
Buzzer
reply 21
 
 
I was looking at this condo when I came across this suite: http://www.buzzbuzzhome.com/library-district/units/condos/tolstoy-ii
Is this bedroom legal?
I see there is a full frosted glass wall but it is perpendicular to the actual window in the suite and the room is labelled as a bedroom, not a nook or...
In order for the room to be designated as a bedroom, does the frosted glass not have to be parallel to some degree to the window and provide at least 50% glass/frosted glass (considering the bedroom has no real window)?
I'm not picking on the design as I can see the structure/layout of the suite is difficult to work with but can someone clarify this one?
There was another condo development that had to go back to the drawing boards because their 2nd bedroom should have been called a den, because of this situaition. I have even fallen into this scenario myself when I was designing suites for a condo dvelopment but it was caught during the design concept stage so we were able to re-design in-house prior to moving forward. I had to research code as well to find that in fact, we did need at least 50% translucscent exposure to any window parallel to the rooms, where a bedroom has no window. Maybe this has changed since 2006? We all make mistakes but nonetheless, we should learn from them as well ;)
Great topic though as we can all learn from this one! Thanks, dare I say, nhincompoop, for starting this one.
Maybe this will start some other form of conversation...two suites that are perpendicular to each other on an inside corner; what is the minimum distance allowable to have a window so you're not looking directly into the suite beside you, is it 3 meters?
 
 
 
 
 

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