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MOO STASH
BabbleBee
reply 277 vote 10
 

What is going on with all the glass falling off condos in Toronto?

First, second, third, fourth and fifth time is Murano. Now Festival Tower?

What is going on? Is it safe to walk downtown anymore?
46
Toronto / General Chit-Chat
 
 
 
ANDREW LAFLEUR
Buzzer
reply 99 vote 24
 
 
1 BEST REPLY
At this point, I don't think this will affect Lanterra at all unless it comes out at some point that they were negligent in the glass they used or the way they were installed. Its too early to say how this will play out but it's a great opportunity for Lanterra to go above and beyond consumer expectations and really 'make it right' Mike Holmes style haha :)
 
 
 
MATTHEW SLUTSKY
BuzzStaff
reply 1969 vote 68
 
 
Do they have the same glazing company?
Maybe we shouldn't be building all glass highrises anymore?
 
 
BRIAN PERSAUD
BabbleBee
reply 274 vote 12
 
 
From Twitter:
@mang5150 I live at Festival. Not an install issue. The glass was broken before falling to the street. Glass too fragile, maybe?!?
Me: do you know where the glass came from? was it from a unit?
@mang5150: Yep, 27th floor. My unit, 2 floors down. Top of pane smashed off by something. They took the rest of the pane down after.
 
 
RATEHUB.CA
Buzzer
reply 114 vote 2
 
 
Brian said:
From Twitter:
@mang5150 I live at Festival. Not an install issue. The glass was broken before falling to the street. Glass too fragile, maybe?!?
Me: do you know where the glass came from? was it from a unit?
@mang5150: Yep, 27th floor. My unit, 2 floors down. Top of pane smashed off by something. They took the rest of the pane down after.

That's scary! With so many buildings having floor-to-ceiling windows, what if someone were to lean against one? Not completely far-fetched.
 
 
JOHN PHILLIPS
Buzzer
reply 22
 
 
No matter the cause it can only be bad news for the owners, Will have a bad mark against buiding, and builder. I won't be promoting builders that are having an issue. I want to know how I can find out about builders past projects (and blemishes), that can't be found in there websites promoting the developments.
 
 
BRIAN PERSAUD
BabbleBee
reply 274 vote 12
 
 
Well Lanterra is paying for the costs to replace the glass without a fight (even though they were ordered by the city). I'd like to reserve judgement until we learn more
 
 
ANONYMOUS
 
 
These buildings are brand new and falling apart already. What will they be like in 5-10 years? Yikes. They just don't make em like they used to.
 
 
MATTHEW SLUTSKY
BuzzStaff
reply 1969 vote 68
 
 
Brian said:
Well Lanterra is paying for the costs to replace the glass without a fight (even though they were ordered by the city). I'd like to reserve judgement until we learn more

I agree. It is way too early to tell, and I want to hold off judgement until I hear why it happened, and who is to blame for it.
At this point it is easy to blame the builder, but that might not be the case.
Here is what Lanterra is saying to CTV news: http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/videos/146544
 
 
ANONYMOUS
 
 
I agree with my near "Name Twin" Brian Persaud. Gotta wait for more info. Probably won't have much impact on the developers but I know today their reputations took a hit. If it continues to happen and/or someone gets hurt it won't be good on a few different levels. I can only imagine what a different conversation we would be having if this happened during TIFF and took out Brad Pitt or something.
 
 
ANONYMOUS
 
 
BTW sorry about confusion with the name. We are brothers from different Mamma's (and Daddy's) Maybe we should join forces Brian... I know most days I wish there was 2 of me.
 
 
MARK SAVEL
Buzzer
reply 128 vote 21
 
 
John said:
No matter the cause it can only be bad news for the owners, Will have a bad mark against buiding, and builder. I won't be promoting builders that are having an issue. I want to know how I can find out about builders past projects (and blemishes), that can't be found in there websites promoting the developments.


Guys, let's look a bitter deeper than this...on the surface it's easy to blow the whistle on the developers as they're the most promoted name tied to the development. But I think we need to take a step back and look at several layers happening here. First, Murano isn't the first building built by Lanterra. They've built several others that haven't experienced this problem (atleast to my knowledge).
Secondly, we need a closer look at the architects and engineers. In this case aA (architects alliance). What many may not know is that this isn't the first time glass fell at Murano, nore is it the only condo it's happened at. I've been hearing about this atleast a year and a half ago. I looked at other projects designed by the firm and noticed a trend.
Both CASA and 18 Yorkville were designed by aA and both had pieces of glass fall from them...and yes, if you check my twitter timeline, there is photographic proof . So why wasn't the media frenzy occurring then? It's like buying a car, one out of every "x" will be a lemon. The same holds true about the glass...one or two is bound to fall. The City knows this and so do the developers. Now just like the "guilty by association" mentality with the the developer, I think we need to reserve judgement against the architect too. Today Festival Tower had an incident, yet that building wasn't designed by aA. (KPMB built this one)
Thirdly, Toronto has a very diverse climate. We go from 30 in the summer to -20 and colder in the winter. Lot's of expanding and contracting, which will ultimately result in glass breaking from the stress on the panes. Now I know this, and i'm sure most others do to...the tough question to ask is: did the installers, manufactures and engineers who signed off on them take this into consideration??
Instead of looking for a party to to blame, I think it's time to look at having less reliance on glass!
 
 
BRIAN PERSAUD
BabbleBee
reply 274 vote 12
 
 
Great article in the Star points fingers to the manufacturers and installers.

I'd like to point out, there are about 2 major installers and few suppliers in Toronto....they work for all the developers in the city
http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1033940--rain-of-panes-not-that-unique?bn=1
FALLING GLASS
Dec. 1, 2010: First known pane of glass explodes and falls from the north tower of 37 Grosvenor St.
June 17, 2011: Second “glass bomb” shatters and plummets from 37 Grosvenor St.
Mid-July: Small pane blows up on a balcony and falls from the Festival Tower above the TIFF Lightbox on King St. W. at John St.
July 21, 2011: At least three panes explode from balconies at 37 Grosvenor St. and litter the ground, which prompts the city to deem the building unsafe.
Aug. 1, 2011: At least three more panes of glass explode from balconies at 37 Grosvenor.
Aug. 2, 2011: A pane explodes from a balcony at the Festival Towers and litters John St. below
 
 
MATTHEW SLUTSKY
BuzzStaff
reply 1969 vote 68
 
 
Doug Perovic, an engineering professor at the University of Toronto, comments were very funny (or, sad). He says, exploding glass "...happens all the time...". Wow. That is great!
So, according to the professor, glass can spontaneously explode for two main reasons:
1. imperfections in the glass during the manufacturing. The small defects can expand with temperature variations and stressors such as wind... as the imperfections expand, KABOOM. He says, “At this point, the glass is like a loaded gun... and it’s only a matter of time before it goes off, explodes into a million pieces and the sky is raining glass.”
2. The installation: The metal railings can put pressure on the glass where they are attached, which causes a major stressor. Add wind and weather patterns, and KABOOM.
So... is this the builders fault? IMHO, I don't think so. They hire the best engineers, trades and architects to continually monitor the building process. It is unfair to just blame them, and say that you would not purchase from them again... Now, if they cheaped out, or didn't follow the advice of their engineers and consultants, then that is a different matter.
 
 
LANCE
NewBee
reply 2
 
 
I notice the Bank of Montreal tower had problems with falling marble. It makes you think of the older traditional buildings like the Empire State Building - did they have problems with falling material? But then, I must admit to being biased - I find the glass towers to be very plain compared to older stone structures. They look solid while the new glass ones look fragile and appear to be doing that now. Hopefully someone works out the dynamics of keeping facades on in our climate. Otherwise, we'll be wrapping them in plastic.
 
 
JOHN PHILLIPS
Buzzer
reply 22
 
 
Sorry guys but you are all beginning to sound like union leaders for the developers. They have to be the fall guy. Great to hear Lanterra is paying for the repair. But what about a smaller developer that does not have huge pre-construction projects on the books. They may have already moved on or closed shop. We are selling from building plans that do not exist. Reputation is everything.
This a.m. I googled Falling Glass in any major city. There are plenty of stories of them in everywhere. Obviously short cuts are made, otherwise all the glass would be falling. If its Chinese glass, expect law suites (anyone familiar with Toxic Chinese Drywall issues in the US?)
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/LD10Dj01.html
If my client buys a pre-construction property and they end up having issues which inturn affects the ability to resell, and they find out this is not the developers 1st problem building, then I'm going to be looking like a bad agent. They are not going to care about who the glass installer or Architect was, it will be me that has introduced them to project. Yes clients need to do the homework, but we as agents must look out for the clients.
 
 
MATTHEW SLUTSKY
BuzzStaff
reply 1969 vote 68
 
 
Hey @John,
Great comments. My point was that it is too early to jump to the conclusion that it is the developer/builder's fault. In fact, I was just in a meeting with a builder who mentioned a whole slew of other possibilities as to what caused this to happen such as:
- re-organizing outside furniture, and smashing it into the glazing one too many times;
- putting furniture right against the balcony glazing, putting pressure on the glazing while there is vibrations from the wind; and,
- etc. etc. etc.
The point is that there are a lot of things that could have caused this to happen, and it is early to just blame the builder.
Kudos for these builders for being pro-active and dealing with the issue immediately.
As you mentioned, what would have happened if this was a small builder who did not want to deal with it? Isn't this a great advantage of buying from reputable and established builders?
In any event, it is very lucky that no one has been hurt yet for this, and there must be new measures put into play to ensure that this type of incident does not happen again.
 
 
MATTHEW SLUTSKY
BuzzStaff
reply 1969 vote 68
 
 
^^That article seems more like an opinion piece, against glass condos than anything else.
The article did not answer the title question of, "Why Architects Shouldn't Build Condos out of Glass And Why People Shouldn't Buy Them".
 
 
GABRIELLA
Buzzer
reply 20
 
 
^^ Just anti-glass propaganda, you say? I can see that.
 
 
MATTHEW SLUTSKY
BuzzStaff
reply 1969 vote 68
 
 
^^But, there is nothing wrong with being anti-glass buildings. I don't love them either!
 
 
MATTHEW SLUTSKY
BuzzStaff
reply 1969 vote 68
 
 
More falling glass... Today from Lanterra's One Bedford.
http://www.thestar.com/mobile/NEWS/article/1039130
I hope this gets cleared up before TIFF...
 
 
ANONYMOUS
 
 
Seriously? Wow. This type of thing is going to make the public want more history on developers before purchasing which is good for the industry. As I said in an earlier post if this continues and/or if someone gets hurt it will not be good all around. Even if the developer themselves is not responsible they are the name attached to the building. The masses will never know who the manufacturer or installer is. Like it or not the Developer is the fall guy.
 
 
GRACECONDOS
Buzzer
reply 51 vote 4
 
 
^^^ oops. I posted before going to pg2 where Matt already posted! *blush*
 
 
MATTHEW SLUTSKY
BuzzStaff
reply 1969 vote 68
 
 
I've got a question... With all this glass falling, do you feel safe walking beside a condo, or do you now cross the street??
I now cross the street near condos.
 
 
MATTHEW SLUTSKY
BuzzStaff
reply 1969 vote 68
 
 
Holy shit... Glass just fell off either Burano or Murano, and someone got hurt. CP24 says, "Her injuries aren't believed to be life-threatening."
CP24 is reporting it: http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110815/110815_police_blotter/20110815/?hub=CP24Home
 
 
ANONYMOUS
 
 
I hate to say it but it was only a matter of time. Luckily her injuries are not life threatening. This is going to start having an impact on consumer psyche. In the end this may be a good thing as it could lead to more transparency into the history of developers, manufacturers, installers etc. Will hopefully result in higher quality product.
 
 
BRENT WILKER
Buzzer
reply 126 vote 2
 
 
I hope this situation increases the amount of diligence people do prior to buying from a developer.
 
 
MATTHEW SLUTSKY
BuzzStaff
reply 1969 vote 68
 
 
WTF!!! An other piece of glass fell off One Bedford today.
Here is a shot of the action:
 
 
MARCO DIFOTI
BabbleBee
reply 476 vote 12
 
 
Lanterra just announced that they will be replacing all of the glass in the balconies. As per CBC News, Lanterra says about the new glass,
"loosely resembles the type of safety glass utilized in automobile windshields. The advantage of utilizing laminated glass is that in combination with using the latest available railing technologies, these laminated panels retain their structure in the event of a fracture and stay in place on the balcony should any breakage occur."
 
 
MATTHEW SLUTSKY
BuzzStaff
reply 1969 vote 68
 
 
Bay Street is closed again, due to falling glass from the South Tower of Murano Condos.

Can you spot the falling glass? We pointed it out below.
 
 
WOJ
Buzzer
reply 38 vote 1
 
 
John said:
No matter the cause it can only be bad news for the owners, Will have a bad mark against buiding, and builder. I won't be promoting builders that are having an issue. I want to know how I can find out about builders past projects (and blemishes), that can't be found in there websites promoting the developments.

This goes back to the ins architecture important to an investor. If you own in Murano and the city declares the building unsafe, i guess you do have to care. eeekkk
 
 
WOJ
Buzzer
reply 38 vote 1
 
 
I read somewhere that all these buildings were designed by Architects Alliance
 
 
JOHN PHILLIPS
Buzzer
reply 22
 
 
I'd be more concerned with the owners of the units, then Lanterra. How has this poor press affected property values since this started hitting the news this summer? How could you not think twice before purchasing? Agreed is a perfect opportunity for builder to show integrity.
 
 
WOJ
Buzzer
reply 38 vote 1
 
 
Do they have to report any city rulings or being labeled unsafe by the city in the status certificates?
 
 
BRENT WILKER
Buzzer
reply 126 vote 2
 
 
Andrew said:
At this point, I don't think this will affect Lanterra at all unless it comes out at some point that they were negligent in the glass they used or the way they were installed. Its too early to say how this will play out but it's a great opportunity for Lanterra to go above and beyond consumer expectations and really 'make it right' Mike Holmes style haha :)


I agree and disagree. I do think this is going to reflect poorly on Lanterra, regardless of who is to blame. If property value goes down at these buildings, people will have to consider that before purchasing from Lanterra. You are right; this is a great opportunity for Lanterra to go above and beyond and I sincerely hope they do.
 
 
ANONYMOUS
 
 
Glass falling off the building?? Sure, why not another 10% appreciation??!?!
 
 
MATTHEW SLUTSKY
BuzzStaff
reply 1969 vote 68
 
DEBORAH
NewBee
reply 5
 
 
Yes, there are probably a few possible factors but obviously a builder would would say this :(
I looked at a potential property yesterday and to see the glass balcony encased in mesh = walk away.
I was just in a meeting with a builder who mentioned a whole slew of other possibilities as to what caused this to happen such as:
- re-organizing outside furniture, and smashing it into the glazing one too many times;
- putting furniture right against the balcony glazing, putting pressure on the glazing while there is vibrations from the wind; and,
- etc. etc. etc.
The point is that there are a lot of things that could have caused this to happen, and it is early to just blame the builder.
 
 
SEAN
BuzzStaff
reply 22 vote 7
 
 
New building code rules were just introduced by Ontario's housing minister to keep glass from breaking off high-rise balconies.
Here's a Globe article on it: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/new-ontario-rules-aim-to-keep-glass-from-tumbling-off-high-rise-balconies/article4359626/
A few quotes:
"the province will require construction companies to install the same kind of heat-resistant glass used in car windshields close to the outside edge of balconies."
"Construction firms will also have to use heat-strengthened glass for both the inside and outside edges of balconies."
Rules kick in on July 1 and only apply to new construction.
 
 
ZESHAN MIRZA
NewBee
reply 1
 
 
This has significant ramifications going forward, and a few have already touched upon this, but falling glass or debris from a building especially in data centric Toronto builds a reference point for consumers positive, or negative. What if someone gets injured or dies due to falling debris? What happens to condo fee's when they have to pay for expensive legal fee's? How will the buildings insurance premium be effected? What about property values?
On the flip side newspapers are classic exaggerators, they own the news only when there is a vacuum from an individual or community. Their is no quick solutions here, just some tough decisions that will need to be made going forward. Capital improvements to how glass towers are built in Toronto are wins for all parties involved. We all know how on the pulse the builder community is in Toronto I expect some changes to alleviate concerns that consumers will have.
 
 
JACKBROWN
NewBee
reply 2
 
 
This a.m. I googled Falling Glass in any major city. There are plenty of stories of them in everywhere. Obviously short cuts are made, otherwise all the glass would be falling. If its Chinese glass, expect law suites (anyone familiar with Toxic Chinese Drywall issues in the US?) Eau Du Soleil
 
 
MATTHEW SLUTSKY
BuzzStaff
reply 1969 vote 68
 
 
@JackBrown, I do not understand your comment. Could you clarify about:
1. Short cuts: What type of short cuts are you talking about? Are you saying that they did not meet building code?
2. Chinese Glass: What is your point? Are you saying that there would only be lawsuits (or, law-suites) if it is glass from China? I do not understand.
 
 
INDU SETH
NewBee
reply 4
 
 
I think it has to do with manufacturing and installation. Could be that the few pieces that fell were faulty!!!
 
 
ALEXANDER KVITNITSKY
Buzzer
reply 51 vote 6
 
 
Isn't there an issue with anything that is produced on a large scale; hence why warranties and insurance companies exist. The only thing I would be concerned with is someone getting hurt at the time of the incident which would be the only circumstance under which I would even go to the builder to begin with; with hopes that new safety regulations would be enforced.
 
 
 
 
 

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