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JOEL HURREN
BuzzStaff
reply 71 vote 8
 

Toronto's Public Transit

This morning in BuzzBuzzHome HQ we were discussing Toronto's public transit and the things we think Toronto needs to develop to become a world class city (especially with our rapidly increasing population). Here's a few of the major things we think need to be implemented.

1) Subway...to be a true world class city, Toronto need's a subway. The longer we wait, the harder it will be to improve our current subway system.
2) Better routes into and out of the city - with all of the roads into and out of the city clogged up nearly every weekday, and little foreseeable change to these roads, we need to have better public transit (GO Train, Subway, etc..) into and out of the city. I personally think it would be great to see the GO Train have a smaller, inner LRT or subway system that picks up commuters from a few additional GO Train stations on the rail line, and makes it much easier for them to access all parts of the city.
3) Subway - thought it deserved two spots

Do you think Toronto will ever be able to develop a good public transit system, or is it too late?

What do you think Toronto needs to become a world class city in terms of transit?
24
Toronto / General Chit-Chat
 
 
 
CLIFF PESKIN
BabbleBee
reply 285 vote 13
 
 
1 BEST REPLY
I know nobody seems to care about my self-driving car point but check this out - Ford Motors is now predicting self-driving, traffic reducing cars, by 2017!
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/132147-ford-self-driving-cars-2017
 
 
 
NICHOLAS GAVEY
Buzzer
reply 60 vote 11
 
 
I agree! We need more subways, this LTR idea is really only a cheap short term solution. Adding more vehicles to the roads is not going to help congestion, they need to go underground.
 
 
MARIUS STAICU
NewBee
reply 2
 
 
I would like to add another point:
SUBWAYS!!!
Seriously you visit any major city in the world and
They all have better subway systems. It's a shame.
 
 
RYAN MCGOVERN
BuzzStaff
reply 282 vote 30
 
 
If people want subways, then they should ante up and stop being reluctant to pay for them. Any scent of a tax hike or anything viewed as a "cash grab" tends to scare people in the city.
Want subways? Then support road tolls, higher property taxes and other revenue streams that could help fund it. Write your MP and demand that Toronto gets more from the federal Gas Tax Fund. Write your councillor and demand that subsidies to the TTC be increased. Because as much as we'd like to have a comprehensive subway system, it's not currently affordable, especially when every level of government is trying to "tighten the belt".
In regards to the LRT - it's a much more cost effective solution and better suited to the proposed routes. And it will be a separated right of way, with existing lanes staying intact, so the argument of it adding to congestion may not be correct (we'll ultimately see if this prediction is right when they are actually built and operating). If anything, it should be taking vehicles off the road when people see that it is more cost effective then taking the car.
Oh, and get the Airport train running ASAP. Almost any major city has a rail link to their airport, and this is long overdue. Increase frequency on the major bus routes (ahem, Dufferin), and find a solution to stop the "bunching" (ex. when a bus is scheduled to arrive every four minutes, but instead five buses arrive every twenty minutes). Improve surface connections at subway stops.
 
 
JOEL HURREN
BuzzStaff
reply 71 vote 8
 
 
Definitely, right now the city needs to focus on making it cheaper & faster to take transit to work than to drive, but with the LRT not likely to be completed before 2020 (http://www.blogto.com/city/2012/05/ttc_projects_delay_for_eglinton_crosstown_lrt/), I'm sure traffic will only get worse as more and more houses are built in the GTA & surrounding areas.
I definitely agree with a road toll on the DVP, Gardiner, 400, 427, etc... Even if it's less than a dime. A lot of other Torontonian's also support a toll/tax:http://bit.ly/LEvfGg . Who knows where it will go, but I think Toronto will regret not building subways in a decade. I'm sure a lot of people would take a train to Toronto if the city was more accessible from Union station.
I think that ultimately, an LRT would be perfect for the area surrounding the core of Toronto, but a solid subway system (even one that transitions into an LRT), would be incredibly beneficial to the core of Toronto.
 
 
JOEL HURREN
BuzzStaff
reply 71 vote 8
 
 
Take a look at the TTC's 30-year OneCity plan unveiled today.

http://onecitytransitplan.com/
 
 
CLIFF PESKIN
BabbleBee
reply 285 vote 13
 
 
@Joel Hurren that's really interesting - thanks for posting. I can't figure out though what the pink Etobicoke Express line going through downtown is - is it a subway?
btw I totally agree with the sentiment in this conversation - Toronto needs more subways!! Although I do believe that fully autonomous vehicles hitting the roads in the next 5 - 10 years resulting in almost perfect efficiency on the roads could be a total game changer that should be considered.
 
 
JOEL HURREN
BuzzStaff
reply 71 vote 8
 
 
According to this image, the Etobicoke Express Line is a TTC Express Rail line, so an additional train line.
 
 
BRENNAN VALENZUELA
Buzzer
reply 16 vote 7
 
 
A bit ambitous, but I guess if you're going to go for it - go all out. Its ridiculously expensive, one billion dollars per year....for thirty years!!! Where is funding like that going to come from? Seriously, if every Torontonian DONATED their entire income every year, we still wouldn't make it half-way.
My bat-sh!t crazy solution: ban all cars downtown and make scooters, segways, bikes and cupcakes accessible to everyone. It'll be cheaper.
 
 
ALEXANDER KVITNITSKY
Buzzer
reply 51 vote 6
 
 
To ease the traffic downtown I think the city should develop a taxation system that would take pictures of each car that goes in and out of the city as they do in some major city in Europe that i cannot recall the name of right now, and tax them based on make/model of the car and the amount of time it spends within the boundaries of the city.
The benefits from system such as that are enormous; the city would raise money to use in the future for public transportation development, lower pollution, lower traffic, encourage people towards resorting towards other means of transportation.
Thoughts?
 
 
ROB LOVE
Buzzer
reply 33 vote 12
 
 
Need better bike access to the city, as well as subways. Anything to entice people to not drive. Considering the cost of owning and operating a vehicle, you have to try really hard to steer people away from cheaper transport options. The GTA should be the poster boy for how to not do transit. Of course, I'm spoiled coming from Vancouver, I couldn't believe the dilapidated state of the Subway system here.
Matthew, did you take the skytrain form the Airport last week? Pretty slick eh?
 
 
MATTHEW SLUTSKY
BuzzStaff
reply 1969 vote 68
 
 
Cliff said:
I know nobody seems to care about my self-driving car point but check this out - Ford Motors is now predicting self-driving, traffic reducing cars, by 2017!
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/132147-ford-self-driving-cars-2017

Whether it is a self-moving car, or not, it will still take up much more room on the road than forms of public transportation.
Amount of space required to transport the same number of passengers by car, bus or bicycle:

Source: City of Munster, Germany Planning Office
The same 40 people (1) in their cars, (2) seated at car spacing, (3) seated at bus passenger spacing, (4) as pedestrians and bicyclists:

Photo credit: Phil Sheffield, Tampa Tribune
 
 
JOEL HURREN
BuzzStaff
reply 71 vote 8
 
 
Cliff said:
I know nobody seems to care about my self-driving car point but check this out - Ford Motors is now predicting self-driving, traffic reducing cars, by 2017!
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/132147-ford-self-driving-cars-2017

I can't see self-driving cars helping core downtown traffic as that is just due to sheer volume, traffic lights, streetcars & buses, etc... But I can definitely see these cars helping reduce the commute into and out of the city on the major highways. Will the government switch the HOV lane into a automated cars only lane? In order for self-driving cars to truly shine, everyone will need to own one.
On a side note, this is an awesome ghost town that is being built in New Mexico to encourage innovation, it has highways allowing companies like Google to test autonomous cars. http://www.fastcompany.com/1838036/how-a-new-mexico-ghost-town-will-produce-tomorrows-biggest-innovations
 
 
CLIFF PESKIN
BabbleBee
reply 285 vote 13
 
 
@Matthew those are great photos and very interesting - I think many cars contain more than a single passenger though.
With regard to both your and @Joel 's scepticism regarding driverless cars - I would argue that even downtown traffic congestion in the busiest of cities is caused primarily by human driver inefficiency as opposed to volume. If every vehicle on Manhattan's roads at rush hour were driven by robots at peak efficiency, traffic congestion would decline significantly - to get an idea of why this is, check out this video showing how such robotic vehicles progressing down a 12-lane road would move through an intersection (assuming no traffic lights or pedestrians)...
http://vimeo.com/37751380
 
 
JOEL HURREN
BuzzStaff
reply 71 vote 8
 
 
Cliff said:
check out this video showing how such robotic vehicles progressing down a 12-lane road would move through an intersection (assuming no traffic lights or pedestrians)...
http://vimeo.com/37751380

That's one of the coolest videos I have seen in a while! I guess everything would then come to a halt for a pedestrian crossing (which would allow pedestrians to cross at any angle). Pretty neat!
 
 
MATTHEW SLUTSKY
BuzzStaff
reply 1969 vote 68
 
 
@Cliff, I agree. Automated cars will be a major jam changer. But, there is no doubt that there is a lot of wasted space when cars drive.
If we are talking automated cars, then we should talk automated busses, which would also be a major game changer.
 
 
AARON MOHAMMED
BuzzStaff
reply 125 vote 19
 
 
Somewhat on the same topic, has anyone seen the recent street car debate ignited by the one and only: Rob Ford.
It's a bit unclear as to where to stop when the streetcar doors open. I always stop behind the car, Mr. Ford stopped at the side and got into an altercation with the driver (who left his seat to yell at Ford)
Full story here:
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1221041--mayor-rob-ford-says-he-didn-t-drive-past-open-streetcar-door
 
 
JOEL HURREN
BuzzStaff
reply 71 vote 8
 
 
Aaron said:
Somewhat on the same topic, has anyone seen the recent street car debate ignited by the one and only: Rob Ford.
It's a bit unclear as to where to stop when the streetcar doors open. I always stop behind the car, Mr. Ford stopped at the side and got into an altercation with the driver (who left his seat to yell at Ford)
Full story here: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1221041--mayor-rob-ford-says-he-didn-t-drive-past-open-streetcar-door
Blown way out of proportion by The Star (typical), the guy just drove past one set of closed doors, give him a break, everyone does it.
 
 
LORI CHANEY
BuzzStaff
reply 1
 
 
Cliff said:
@Matthew those are great photos and very interesting - I think many cars contain more than a single passenger though.
With regard to both your and @Joel 's scepticism regarding driverless cars - I would argue that even downtown traffic congestion in the busiest of cities is caused primarily by human driver inefficiency as opposed to volume. If every vehicle on Manhattan's roads at rush hour were driven by robots at peak efficiency, traffic congestion would decline significantly - to get an idea of why this is, check out this video showing how such robotic vehicles progressing down a 12-lane road would move through an intersection (assuming no traffic lights or pedestrians)...
http://vimeo.com/37751380

Someone in the comments there mentioned that this is already happening in many cities, except with human drivers, so I decided to look it up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzx92rNVjzs
 
 
MATTHEW SLUTSKY
BuzzStaff
reply 1969 vote 68
 
 
Lori said:
Someone in the comments there mentioned that this is already happening in many cities, except with human drivers, so I decided to look it up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzx92rNVjzs

One word: wow.
 
 
CLIFF PESKIN
BabbleBee
reply 285 vote 13
 
 
@Lori that is hilarious!! haha
 
 
JOEL HURREN
BuzzStaff
reply 71 vote 8
 
 
Really cool video explaining the Eglinton Light Rail underground construction! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovMnyoJfj0k&feature=player_embedded#!
 
 
CLIFF PESKIN
BabbleBee
reply 285 vote 13
 
 
That tunnelling machine is impressive. Such a cool video - great find.
 
 
JOEL HURREN
BuzzStaff
reply 71 vote 8
 
 
1
This is pretty abysmal...but also funny!
 
 
 
 
 

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